tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post2238828686465136440..comments2024-03-27T21:10:10.606-07:00Comments on eLearning Technology: Touch Typing - Cursive Writing - Why?Tony Karrerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15408035995182843336noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-75062122496393985202011-07-20T19:42:56.627-07:002011-07-20T19:42:56.627-07:00While I personally rarely do my hand writing in cu...While I personally rarely do my hand writing in cursive (outside of applying my signature), I do a lot of handwriting. Kids should definitely learn to type as it is a very useful skill. On the other hand (no pun intended), studies have shown that handwriting has more advantages when it comes to learning for a number of reasons. One is that the motions of writing out the words allow for extra sense memories to be formed when trying to learn what you write. Also, since it generally takes longer than typing (unless you're a really slow typer), there's a temporal aspect in that the brain is forced to think about what one is writing for a little longer than typing.Curranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02381465247309592237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-20192162139051922932009-02-28T07:35:00.000-08:002009-02-28T07:35:00.000-08:00I am as perplexed as you why many schools do not s...I am as perplexed as you why many schools do not see the need for students to learn how to touch-type. In my daughter's school, they spent time learning cursive and then were not required to use it except for limited projects. Are they expected to type their reports, though? YES...without learning how to type beforehand.<BR/><BR/>I am a business teacher who has taught keyboarding in Grades 9-12 for many years and who taught keyboarding in Grades 3 & 4 for two years. Our school did not want to have to hire an extra teacher, so when a high school business teacher resigned, I was moved back to the high school and the keyboarding program was dissolved.<BR/><BR/>My daughter is now in fifth grade in the same school district as I teach. It drives me crazy that the administration does not value proper keyboarding skills. In fact, our superintendent deleted keyboarding in Grades 9-12 WITHOUT placing it anywhere else in the district. He believes students do not need to spend a class period learning to "doink" on the keyboard.<BR/><BR/>We teach students how to properly hold a golf club, football, tennis racquet and such...however, we do not teach them a skill that they use everyday of their life. It amazes me that more people are not outraged by this. However, many believe that people can learn to type their own way and that is sufficient.<BR/><BR/>DonnaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-36193571292595339332009-01-25T07:48:00.000-08:002009-01-25T07:48:00.000-08:00That's a good suggestion, but I'm not sure I buy t...That's a good suggestion, but I'm not sure I buy that spending as much time as they do teaching cursive in 4th grade makes much sense.Tony Karrerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408035995182843336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-84263213464574911182009-01-24T21:01:00.000-08:002009-01-24T21:01:00.000-08:00I have more info. They must end Palmer and Zaner w...I have more info. They must end Palmer and Zaner writing styles. They are horrible. Kids spend too much time trying to figure how to make characters instead of forming words and sentences. Cursive italic is the only writing style that should be taught. Kid will breeze through and have no problems. Gosh, now I know why it too me so long to learn how to write. Palmer style held me back. See my post above for book on learning how to write with cursive italic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-16303779153429540062009-01-24T20:47:00.000-08:002009-01-24T20:47:00.000-08:00Hey guys and girls. They need to eliminate cursive...Hey guys and girls. They need to eliminate cursive writing all together and adopt cursive italic. Reason: they teach kids how to print, then cursive, the F and Z you can hardly recognize due to curlie ques etc. But once an adult most end up with a type of cursive italic. When I went back to graduate school I had to learn how to write all over. If it wasn't for this book I would not have made it. It's called WRITE NOW by Barbara Getty and Inga Dubay, Continuing Education Press. It is the best book ever. I'm really suprised educators still insist on teaching cursive. They need to teach printing, then cursive italic! End of story. And touch typing before high school!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-47676166415867688612008-09-18T06:27:00.000-07:002008-09-18T06:27:00.000-07:00Kate - good point. People should be taught how to...Kate - good point. People should be taught how to do fast, legible writing. However, there's a cost of teaching anything - it's opportunity cost. You have to displace teaching something else. So, it's a balance. The choice here is spending time on teaching alternative writing forms vs. teaching touch typing.<BR/><BR/>I guess we know where you stand.Tony Karrerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408035995182843336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-63614687190209153382008-09-18T05:57:00.000-07:002008-09-18T05:57:00.000-07:00Whether I believe that "it should be taught" depen...Whether I believe that "it should be taught" depends on whether "it" refers to cursive writing or to that very different thing, maximally efficient (fastest and most legible) writing.<BR/><BR/>If you didn't gather this much from my posting, then I take it you didn't visit my web-site. You can still reach it at the address I previously gave, but it now has a new, more easily remembered address too:<BR/>http://www.HandwritingThatWorks .KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-65410331496428756122008-06-17T12:44:00.000-07:002008-06-17T12:44:00.000-07:00Kate - I take it you believe it should be taught?Kate - I take it you believe it should be taught?Tony Karrerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408035995182843336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-61753459960718977072008-06-17T10:40:00.000-07:002008-06-17T10:40:00.000-07:00As a handwriting instruction/remediation specialis...As a handwriting instruction/remediation specialist, I agree on cursive writing's numerous disadvantages. Research shows that the fastest, most legible handwriters combine the best elements of cursive with the best elements of printing: they tend to employ only the easiest joins (skipping the rest) and to use print-style shapes for those letters whose printed and cursive forms "disagree." <BR/><BR/>Please see my web-site at http://www.learn.to/handwrite and/or my YouTube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdCB6R1xI5IKateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-15126126455641260112008-02-20T11:34:00.000-08:002008-02-20T11:34:00.000-08:00This is actuall a great debate. There is no quest...This is actuall a great debate. There is no question about learning to type well and learning touch typing at a very early age can only make life easier for the children. On the other hand not everything can be just typed even in the future. People will have to take notes on paper, and if that is done with a bad handwriting then it is not going to help. So, there is a need to learn cursive writing as well. But the emphasis should be more on teaching the touch typing rather than teaching to write well with pencil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-34341800532908601532008-02-08T04:45:00.000-08:002008-02-08T04:45:00.000-08:00I worked as a high school teacher and they were do...I worked as a high school teacher and they were doing away with cursive writing in our Elementary System. It will soon become a lost art, but why take the time to learn cursive now? <BR/><BR/>In the digital age, we have other tools for communication. I think it was a bit personal for me though when I found out because I think cursive is much more aestetically pleasing than print. That is just my personal opinion though. <BR/><BR/>I don't think any lives will be lost by losing cursive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-34356911867435445492008-01-28T14:22:00.000-08:002008-01-28T14:22:00.000-08:00Not sure if this is the story I was thinking of, b...Not sure if <A HREF="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,901020311-214250,00.html" REL="nofollow">this</A> is the story I was thinking of, but it's interesting anyway!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-3726058929850979192008-01-28T14:15:00.000-08:002008-01-28T14:15:00.000-08:00Apparently there is already a man who has himself ...Apparently there is already a man who has himself hardwired to connect to his system, but I can't find any hard and fast data on it. I know I didn't make it up, though, because other people have mentioned it, too. He's a researcher and has done it as part of his researh project.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-86403321481721552962008-01-28T14:01:00.000-08:002008-01-28T14:01:00.000-08:00A couple years ago, there were predictions that st...A couple years ago, there were predictions that students now would not learn typing because speech as an input would make it not needed.<BR/><BR/>It seems that we stretched a bit on that one and speech still lags typing by quite a bit. However, if we taught young people how to speak into the computer from a young age, I bet they could do it much better than all of us. Have you ever seen a child using NintenDogz? They work very hard to get their commands recognized.<BR/><BR/>That said, I predict that speech as an input will be relatively short lived. We are going to have direct from brain input into computers in a relatively modest 20-25 years. They already do it with paralyzed individuals by attaching to the areas of the brain that control those motor functions. Extending that to touch other areas of the brain so that we can be "one with our machine" to output from our brain to the machine is not that hard. Extending that so that we can access directly without having to read is a bit farther off.<BR/><BR/>This will be raising a whole lot of questions about who gets the implants. And is that fair?<BR/><BR/>Once we get to the point of machine as extended memory - it's going to make "learning" rather interesting.<BR/><BR/>All of this makes discussion of Cursive rather quaint. Cursive = Punch Cards?Tony Karrerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408035995182843336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-89154165647356374302008-01-28T11:01:00.000-08:002008-01-28T11:01:00.000-08:00I'm glad to see the consensus seems to be that cur...I'm glad to see the consensus seems to be that cursive today should become the Latin of yesterday: once taught extensively in our schools, but now looked back on as irrelevant (but quaint).<BR/><BR/>As Tony implied, we should focus on writing as "the formation of content" and not "the physical manner in which you put that content on a piece of paper."<BR/><BR/>Many kids these days have such horrible writing skills, it's a real shame to think of all the time wasted in teaching them how to make their horrible writing look pretty on paper with fancy handwriting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-70923219338524327862008-01-27T18:15:00.000-08:002008-01-27T18:15:00.000-08:00And if Dragon Speak or other programs ever really ...And if Dragon Speak or other programs ever really do work with all applications, and if retinal scans or other bio identificaiton technology kicks in then there will be no need to write anything ever again...<BR/><BR/>(and not RSI either...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-70087857195270584212008-01-26T22:04:00.000-08:002008-01-26T22:04:00.000-08:00Hi Tom,Those are some very interesting thoughts. T...Hi Tom,<BR/><BR/>Those are some very interesting thoughts. The school system I was in (ages ago) taught typing as an elective as no one knew at that time the impact computers, with keyboards as the primary input device, would have in the at this point in time. <BR/><BR/>So now we have to consider if keyboards will indeed be the primary input devices of the future? For all we know it could be a tablet device as you described. Do we second guess today's disciplined tasks in order to teach what's pragmatic by today's standards?<BR/><BR/>Like you, I also value my cursive skill because it is so much faster and natural than printing when one has to use paper and pencil. I don't use a tablet yet, but if I did, I would much prefer being able to write than print.Donald Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01980740206430947090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-70504154577551057002008-01-26T20:03:00.000-08:002008-01-26T20:03:00.000-08:00Good discussion. It's interesting that the focus ...Good discussion. It's interesting that the focus is on pen/paper and typing. However, I wonder if that will change as the tablet/touch capabilities become more popular with PCs. <BR/><BR/>I know that I use my tabletPC quite a bit and that the recognition is much better when it's cursive versus print.<BR/><BR/>To me cursive seems more natural when writing on my tablet. What I find is that I have been focusing on better cursive writing to make my tabletPC time more efficient.<BR/><BR/>While I am somewhat ambivalent about cursive being taught in school, one thing that does concern me is that sometimes we're quick to dismiss teaching children disciplined tasks in lieu of what's pragmatic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-87508811555846606662008-01-25T10:47:00.000-08:002008-01-25T10:47:00.000-08:00Maria Hlas's comment made me chuckle in agreement....Maria Hlas's comment made me chuckle in agreement. When I say I print, it's really the same sort of hybrid cursive-print style that Maria finds herself writing out. I'm not sure about her, but in my case it ends up being mostly modern script art that only I can understand. It's not terribly elegant in execution or pretty. <BR/><BR/>In short, my handwriting is terrible. I could see where consistent reintegration of hand-eye coordination activities would help bring that writing sense back, but then I never was terribly comfortable writing even when I practiced it daily.<BR/><BR/>When it comes to reading, I can read cursive perfectly fine unless it's someone else's signature. ;) I can see how the loss of understanding of this particular art could harm society in the ways mentioned. I think it would still be a long while before cursive was completely forgotten though.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12866676426830088251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-29460288823629270972008-01-25T10:35:00.000-08:002008-01-25T10:35:00.000-08:00I just came across this blog entry I wrote last su...I just came across this blog entry I wrote last summer when teaching a course on computer supported technology across the curriculum. While it does not address the cursive vs. print debate, it does bring up other aspects of writing we should be including in our curriculum (including hypertext and visual rhetoric--communicating your message with graphics). <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://connecting2theworld.blog.com/1915200/" REL="nofollow"> my blog </A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-29726337719230702882008-01-25T10:01:00.000-08:002008-01-25T10:01:00.000-08:00Now that Tony has clarified the cursive vs. printi...Now that Tony has clarified the cursive vs. printing vs. typing debate, I have to agree with him. I myself only write in cursive as it takes me too long to print. However, my mother who is 80 years old was part of an educational experiment in the 1930's. She was only taught printing, no cursive. The only time it interfered with her life was during teaching training when she had to learn cursive to teach to grade schoolers (when she does write cursive, it looks like the cursive drill books). Since she went on to be a Kindergarten teacher, she has never used cursive again--she prints her signature and it is uniquely hers.<BR/><BR/>The only two arguments FOR teaching cursive would be 1)it is a traditional form of writing that if we loose it, we might have trouble reading old documents and 2) cursive is a faster form of writing. In this day and age, however, students could learn truncated language for note taking (e.g. IM speak). In terms of "loosing" cursive, this could be a skill taught in advanced study, either as a requisite to History, English, and/or Art curriculum, such as old English is currently required for English Majors.<BR/><BR/>To make this transition, however, there needs to be more work on how to teach touch typing to children (what is developmentally appropriate) and when to introduce it taking into consideration literacy skills. Also, there needs to be greater dissemination of information on the use of typing vs. handwritten pieces of writing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-26610880899939473062008-01-25T09:44:00.000-08:002008-01-25T09:44:00.000-08:00I recently sold my home so naturally had to sign a...I recently sold my home so naturally had to sign a zillion pieces of paper. I actually screwed up my signature a couple of time because I rarely write my name in cursive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-2084875628640275262008-01-25T08:42:00.000-08:002008-01-25T08:42:00.000-08:00This is a great discussion, and in some way valida...This is a great discussion, and in some way validates the approach I've taken with that laboratory otherwise known as my ten year old daughter. While the school's assumption is that all homework will be completed on paper, I've encouraged my gal to use her PC as a composition tool; now she thinks it's archaic to erase a penciled phrase rather than simply backspace to rephrase. I believe she's the only one in her class who emails her writing assignments to the teacher before she leaves for school...but overall, she's fairly balanced between scrawled and typed expression.Rae Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504108711473895621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-69146064692958319312008-01-25T08:28:00.000-08:002008-01-25T08:28:00.000-08:00This is very interesting and I was really waffling...This is very interesting and I was really waffling on it because I do both. I keep a notebook and take notes all the time to make up for a not-so-good memory and information overload (in some bizarre hybrid of printing and cursive that I started in college. Miss Milbrand, my second-grade teacher, would be truly horrified by it!). But as an instructional designer I do a lot of writing at the keyboard. Then I changed my mind when I read John Zurovchak's comments. He is right - being able to type well, relatively fast and somewhat accurately, without looking at the keyboard is absolutely vital. Learning to print and at least learning the basics of cursive are important, but the typing skills are more important in my opinion. I will say when my nephew, who is 21 now, first got a checking account a couple of years ago, he had to ask my sister how to sign his name. She was completely baffled that he didn't know until she realized he learned cursive writing a long time ago and then never really had used it much since that time.<BR/><BR/>Maria HlasAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22055982.post-10901521705220326962008-01-25T06:30:00.000-08:002008-01-25T06:30:00.000-08:00I would have to say I agree on the printing vs. cu...I would have to say I agree on the printing vs. cursive question. Personally, beyond aesthetics I do not see the need to write cursive regularly. My own writing has gravitated back toward printing, as poor as even that looks many times.<BR/><BR/>As for note taking reinforcing knowledge, I've never been a big note taker, but perhaps I should retry it. given the results DC cited.I am a huge proponent of using visuals, and try to use them as often as possible or appropriate in my work. I forget which study it was that I read recently that compared the retention rates of reading versus hearing versus seeing, and combinations thereof. Visuals scored highest for retention, with visuals plus audio scoring highest for mixed method retention. Many people here are probably familair with some of these studies already, but it is sometimes fascinating how visually oriented we still are given other modes of communication.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12866676426830088251noreply@blogger.com